\n<\/p>\n
Laila: <\/strong>With The Great Pyramid Scheme<\/em>, I saw on Reddit this comment that just said, \u201cWhat if there was a workplace comedy about building the pyramids? LOL.\u201d It was very Reddit-y and it just kind of stuck in my brain. And went in my ideas book until I told my friend who\u2019s in my writing group and he said, \u201cThat one, that\u2019s the one you need to do next.\u201d<\/p>\n So I kind of followed a lot of curiosity with it. The story is in Ancient Egypt. Pharaoh Khufu is building the greatest pyramid of all time, but amid feuding queens and union strikes, will he ever finish? Krapopolis<\/em> meets Futurama<\/em> in this narrative comedy podcast that is absolutely not safe for work. And if you look up not safe for work podcasts, those are normally erotica podcasts. I\u2019m not saying we don\u2019t make sex jokes, but this is just definitely what you would normally be watching on Adult Swim; we\u2019ve made into an audio play series.<\/p>\n And what was kind of fun about this was the team that we had together. We had a team of five writers including myself Nabra. And we followed what was fun about something or what was interesting about something while also trying to get a lot of historic inspiration.<\/p>\n So I was initially inspired with a character design that Pharaoh Khufu\u2019s dad, who\u2019s Pharaoh Daddy in the series, but in real life he\u2019s Pharaoh Sneferu. The ancient Greeks wax poetically about what a great dude, super amazing, Pharaoh Sneferu, two thumbs up.<\/p>\n Then it comes to be Pharaoh Khufu\u2019s time, and Pharaoh Khufu is the one in the Great Pyramid of Giza\u2014and for some reason none of us know his name. Even though I have multiple social studies textbooks that had the Great Pyramid of Giza on it, and we never actually talked about anything Egyptian. It\u2019s a little bit of a sidebar, but we didn\u2019t know his name.<\/p>\n And then come to find out the Ancient Greece, including Herodotus who is the Father of History, he\u2019s termed the \u201cFather of History.\u201d He wrote the craziest lies, and they have to be lies. At some point that he\u2019s like, \u201cHe\u2019s pimping out his daughter to the slaves, otherwise nobody would work on this pyramid. He is doing all of this. Pharaoh Khufu, boo.\u201d Very intense, very intense, like saying, \u201cYou\u2019re pimping out your daughter or selling other people in order to build this pyramid\u201d when the government of Egypt has recently been going on this kind of campaign to say, \u201cWe have the archeological proof pyramids were not built with slaves. It was not slave labor. We have the remains.\u201d All these funerary remains show that they were buried with respect and with this kind of dignity that showed that they had to be of a certain economic class. So, a worker class instead of slave class.<\/p>\n There was a lot of evidence that supported this was kind of an FDR-like project\u2014FDR with the New Deal of having all of these things that we still enjoy in America today of the national parks, murals everywhere. The way that we were investing in the environment and arts and other kind of things while people didn\u2019t have jobs. We can make a job that\u2019s something for the value of society.<\/p>\n So how this relates to Egypt was the pyramid was built because there was always flooding season. What does an agricultural society that\u2019s also a trade society, but Egypt is still the Middle East breadbasket, what do you do when the agricultural society can\u2019t do anything because the Nile has flooded? And that\u2019s what they would do: \u201cHere, you can still work. Make a block.\u201d<\/p>\n I\u2019ve really felt this call of, \u201cwe don\u2019t have enough out there.\u201d We don\u2019t have enough that\u2019s even offered as a counterpoint to the barrage of other images, the barrage of other statements.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n Nabra: <\/strong>It\u2019s amazing how much of this, the history and conversations about representation, came up throughout the writing process, and still in what we do. Because you\u2019ll listen to it, and it\u2019s, I mean, the product is a very silly, hilarious podcast with a lot of inappropriate jokes.<\/p>\n But this was constantly on our minds. All of us as a writing team, we were always going back to the source material, the history, looking up gods and rituals and real traditional practices. And because we had a lot of MENA folks on the writing team, we were always thinking about representation and how we can balance having this ridiculous comedy that we are having so much fun writing\u2014and all of us have this sense of humor\u2014and also do well by our identities. It\u2019s such an interesting and bizarre, I guess, balance, especially when it comes to this project.<\/p>\n Laila: <\/strong>Yeah. I kind of hope that people will take that as getting a bit more interested if they heard something, since we were really following the fun of what came up. I think I can say all five of us super dig mythology. So all five of us really had fun of feeling, okay, what god can we put in this episode? So we had this kind of point of magic and mythology that we were really leaning on that was super fun because gods are awesome.<\/p>\n Then we had the second point where this is really a labor show. This is really about supporting unions, supporting workers\u2019 rights, and kind of doing that in a funny way. The big major conflict of the show is Pharaoh Khufu is trying to build this pyramid and then the kind of secondary protagonist, Aaron, is leading a labor movement that somehow winds up including crocodiles to be protected under workers\u2019 rights. And the crocodile should have beer in payment as well: Stella, the Beer of Egypt.<\/p>\n So we had all these different kinds of bits, that was really fun, and then we had all these anachronisms at the same time. So hopefully it\u2019s just one of those things that\u2019s a spark for people to get more interested in accurate depictions. Instead of what I am tired of, which is always the Western lens first. I know I grew up in America, but Western lens first in all of these things has been very, very challenging, particularly in current media. It\u2019s been very challenging.<\/p>\n Marina: <\/strong>Well, and I think sometimes people take comedy as being a media that you could just play with. And that things like representation don\u2019t play into it as well, which is of course not true. You want the representation to be true and good. And it makes the comedy deeper and richer when those things happen, when the care is actually being given.<\/p>\n Laila: <\/strong>Yeah, I fully agree with that because in my time in LA, I was getting deeper and deeper in different comedy communities, including Upright Citizens Brigade, that improv community. Or even just there are a lot of great Arab stand-ups. Laura Laham and Lynn Maleh, who have actually voice acted on the show, have been both hosts of different Arab American comedy shows all across the US. Very proud of them. They\u2019re hilarious. You should go watch them. Go to a show, you will not regret it.<\/p>\n And the specificity of something\u2026 it doesn\u2019t have to be your culture to still be super, super intriguing. But because of the way joke writing works, I felt like my level of comedy got more specific. Because Laura and I actually were in a kind of virtual comedy writers\u2019 group where everybody else was working on their stand-ups and getting really specific with jokes, and I would bring in pages and be like, \u201cWhat do you guys think?\u201d Which is very nice of them to let me tag along as a non-standup.<\/p>\n And when you see the actual detail and the microscope that goes into every single joke of saying, \u201cWhere is this joke hitting? Who\u2019s the joke on? Would it be better if we try to switch out this?\u201d It\u2019s like watching a chef or something be like, \u201cNo, I need a little bit more of this garlic. I need a little\u2026\u201d\u2014well, everyone always needs loads of garlic. That\u2019s a false equivalence\u2014but, \u201cI need a little bit more of this. I want an essence of that.\u201d And being aware that who it\u2019s going out to totally changes the comedy as well. So, I think comedy is also the best and been the most exciting for a lot of marginalized communities. I felt very lucky to be part of that space and to continue to be part of it. People are saying really exciting things right now and doing a lot of exciting things.<\/p>\n Marina: <\/strong>Yeah. I feel like sometimes the doom scrolling is broken up for me by a Middle Eastern artist coming across my newsfeed. And saying something that hits really close to home, but that is dealing with the heartbreak and trauma of the current times in a way that is witty and smart and funny.<\/p>\n Laila: <\/strong>Yeah. I mean, it\u2019s tough, but I think we all celebrated. Emil Wakim is on SNL now, and he gets to be Christian Lebanese on SNL. That\u2019s not a fight that has been nothing. But I am very much interested in, the reason I\u2019ve been producing more, which has been a gift as I\u2019ve really felt this call of, \u201cwe don\u2019t have enough out there.\u201d We don\u2019t have enough that\u2019s even offered as a counterpoint to the barrage of other images, the barrage of other statements.<\/p>\n I mean, yeah, if there was a time in my lifetime where the word terrorist got untangled from the Arab identity, I would feel so blessed. I would feel so grateful. And that\u2019s what we\u2019re fighting. I mean that\u2019s what we\u2019re going up against, that this is an insane first picture. It is a crazy first image that is held very deeply by people. And I find it very irresponsible that this image is being propagated. I don\u2019t really blame ordinary people when they\u2019re getting thrown this image all the time. What are they going to do differently? That\u2019s our job. Different image.<\/p>\n Marina: <\/strong>Definitely. And The Great Pyramid Scheme<\/em> will give that different image, which is really exciting.<\/p>\n Laila: <\/strong>I hope so.<\/p>\n So this is a form of protest in the sense that it is a comedy. It is not keeping us in a tragedy porn space, and it is remembering that there are other great civilizations before Greece.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n Marina: <\/strong>I have faith, based on everything I\u2019ve heard. But you brought up voice actors and now I\u2019m very curious. So narrative podcasts are new to me. One, I\u2019m curious how many episodes? Would love to hear if you don\u2019t mind sharing about how you structured them. But I also am curious now about voice actors. Because I\u2019m like, \u201cDo I know these voice actors? How did you cast?\u201d More great representation happening here.<\/p>\n Laila: <\/strong>Yeah, that\u2019s kind of the cool, also joy of getting to produce yourself. We were working with a small budget and immense talent, and I am very grateful for everybody for doing so. As Nabra would attest, because also Nabra signed up for so many episodes to write on, we had a breakneck pace.<\/p>\n In February, we spent two weeks kind of talking out, what\u2019s the story? What\u2019s the character design? So that was one week. And then the following week we already said, \u201cOkay, these plot lines are going to go together. These plot lines are going to go together and these plot lines are going to go together. So sign up what\u2019s interesting to you.\u201d<\/p>\n And everybody wanted \u201cAliens,\u201d so I bowed out of that. Nabra is actually one of the writers on \u201cAliens.\u201d \u201cAliens\u201d is very funny. Please make it to \u201cAliens.\u201d It keeps getting more ridiculous. Stick with the show, guys.<\/p>\n So we wrote over, from March to May, we wrote three hundred pages. So each kind of arc is kind of a part one and part two. We get to a climax of \u201cAliens\u201d week, and then we come back to have the kind of big finale and finish of it.<\/p>\n Then that following week we do \u201cAtlantis,\u201d and then we come back and we finish it. And the following week we do what\u2019s actually turned out to be everybody who worked on the shows, what they think is the craziest episode, which was the \u201cDuat Afterlife and Periods\u201d episode, which Nabra and I also wrote on with Robert.<\/p>\n Nabra: <\/strong>Which will probably be the feature of this pod swap. So if you\u2019re going over to Great Pyramid Scheme<\/em>, you may see Marina and I talking about pyramids and the afterlife.<\/p>\n Laila: <\/strong>Yes, that\u2019s become our dramaturgical baby of equal representation for women, I guess. I\u2019m not sure. We could probably spend this very nicely, but we found very funny research regarding periods. So we followed the fun of that.<\/p>\n And then we\u2019ve finished with the finale of the \u201cPlagues.\u201d But we had what will come out is the \u201cWeek One,\u201d which will introduce us to the world of the characters, as well as a bonus full storyline of propaganda, which has been very fun. Of just kind of talking about propaganda in a kind of light and silly way.<\/p>\n So that\u2019ll be the whole first weeks, and then we\u2019ll have four weeks following that. So it\u2019s going to be quite a few episodes, twenty-five-minute length. And that\u2019s just mostly because I don\u2019t know how to write short form very well. And we really treated it very much like a sitcom as much as we could, even though they were sixty pages.<\/p>\n So for people who may not be writers or screenwriters, you normally call a page a minute. So, we try to kind of do that and we\u2019ll see how far over we are when we\u2019re out of post-production. But really treating it as okay, we have a Plot A and a Plot B and a Plot C, and we have all these very layered in-depth things going on.<\/p>\n We have all these different characters, very ensemble-y because that\u2019s also the comedy I drift towards loving. And everyone had a favorite to write for or a favorite, yeah, \u201cthat\u2019s the one I want.\u201d Became very clear, very fast. Nabra loves writing for Queen Henutsen, who\u2019s the poison queen.<\/p>\n Nabra: <\/strong>And who I will always take the opportunity to say, many people or many historians believe is Nubian. So y\u2019all got to recognize.<\/p>\n Laila: <\/strong>We love it.<\/p>\n Nabra: <\/strong>There\u2019s some representation, y\u2019all.<\/p>\n Laila: <\/strong>We kept it accurate. Yeah, it was very cool because in the writer\u2019s room, Nabra is Nubian, I\u2019m Lebanese and Syrian, and then we have another writer who identifies as biracial, Palestinian and American, I guess, I don\u2019t know how you say white in another way from this. He\u2019s Palestinian. And so we have 60 percent from our writer\u2019s group.<\/p>\n And then our voice actors, we had, all the writers actually wound up doing some voice acting bit roles at some point. But likewise, 60 percent of our writer\u2019s room, including myself, are also actors. And so I knew that, hey, I\u2019ve got a wealth of people I\u2019ve worked with before and a wealth of talent here. Where Robert and Bree did so many of the additional voices, as well as Robert\u2019s wife Morgan was an amazing voice help.<\/p>\n So for our additional voices, we just tapped on the people we know. And I held a casting session for following the other people. I don\u2019t know if you guys have talked about OuLuLi on this podcast before, but that\u2019s actually how I saw your podcast being distributed before, was Nabra posting on OuLuLi, \u201cI have Kunafa and Shay<\/em>.\u201d So I definitely was definitely… Or, Marina, do you also post for the show in there?<\/p>\n Marina: <\/strong>No.<\/p>\n Nabra: <\/strong>I think it\u2019s mostly me. And for those who don\u2019t know, it\u2019s OuLuLi Arabs in the Arts Facebook group because we still holding down the fort on Facebook. But it\u2019s such a good community, honestly, of many different types of artists across the nation\u2014I don\u2019t know if it\u2019s even international\u2014posting about art, activism, and just pumping each other up and creating real community on Facebook, which doesn\u2019t really exist that much anymore.<\/p>\n Laila: <\/strong>It\u2019s been great. And there are several people in the group that they\u2019re just been completely lovely throughout. Ali Nasser, who is the voice of our Pharaoh Khufu, as well as the voice of Yahweh, it\u2019s his notable, I guess secondary role. Ali was somebody I had gotten to know through some activism in the group, and I knew I\u2019d wanted to work with him. I just knew I wanted to work with Ali some point, work with Ali at some point. And so we did. And that was awesome that he was available. He did the table read for us. Then he made time in his schedule to do the full season, which was great. The voice actor for Aaron as well as Anubis, and a few other random roles here and there, actually knows Nabra.<\/p>\n Nabra: <\/strong>Yeah, who I know from Seattle. He was in Selling Kabul <\/em>over there and is an Egyptian actor. Adam El-Sharkawi, who I\u2019m always trying to get more Egyptians into all the spaces.<\/p>\n Laila: <\/strong>And I fully believe you should definitely hire both Ali and Adam, both Egyptian, both fantastic actors outside of that. They\u2019ve got amazing range, amazing voice talent. And then Lynn Maleh and Laura Laham, I actually called up and saying, \u201cWe really need some Middle Eastern women.\u201d<\/p>\n And they got kind of spooked because I had a very intense casting call saying, \u201cPlease do not submit if you cannot commit to the dates. Please do not submit if you cannot record at home.\u201d And Lynn said, \u201cOh, I don\u2019t have an at-home.\u201d I was like, \u201cThat\u2019s okay, we will make it work.\u201d And she is so funny. She is such a great Queen Meritites. She\u2019s such a joy to work with. She has such a great sense of timing and beats.<\/p>\n And Laura, the same thing of she just has the Queen Henutsen arrogance and the very much tackling it in a great way. So I was very grateful to these excellent, funny women for joining the team.<\/p>\n Last but not least of our voice actors, that\u2019s kind of separate from the writing community that we hired, was Adron Duell who is an Iranian American. And Adron and I had worked on a project a few years ago, but he\u2019s also a standup comedian. So we are basically theatre people and stand-ups did this show.<\/p>\n Ali and Adam also have a significant theatre background. Bree, Robert, and I have a massive theatre background. Nabra obviously theatre background. So we wanted to have that kind of live theatre feel. Instead of, yeah, we kind of wanted to honor the performance of being able to do things together. So instead of recording separately, we did use Zencastr to record virtually all from at home and mostly be able to feed off each other\u2019s energy in that way.<\/p>\n Nabra: <\/strong>And so another thing we want to talk about with this podcast, more I guess generally zooming out into the realm of narrative podcasts, is how it might fit into this huge umbrella of performance art? Since this is our performance art season, which really we\u2019re using to be like anything.<\/p>\n Because we\u2019re learning more and more that performance art has been, it started in, kind of, galleries and as a complement to visual art. But now it really encompasses so many different forms and multimedia expressions and just different ways of presenting performance.<\/p>\n Do you have thoughts on how narrative podcasts, as they\u2019re especially gaining popularity, fit into this umbrella of performance art? And also any other projects you may have considered performance art in your career? I\u2019m thinking about standup or sketch comedy as well.<\/p>\n The narrative podcast genre and medium is a really accessible way to get yourself out there and to get representation out there.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n Laila: <\/strong>Yeah, I think that it\u2019s so awesome that you guys are spending a whole season really dedicated to performance. Almost everybody\u2019s first connection who is a professional today, does come from doing either a school show or whatever. Something that was done live in front of everyone.<\/p>\n But that\u2019s not fully the case anymore that it was always live. Some people\u2019s first connection now is by doing TikTok. Sometimes it\u2019s being able to control that many different factors.<\/p>\n What I love about this narrative podcast is we took a lot of the joy of live, a lot of the fun theatricality of my forced theatre boot camp of \u201cwe\u2019re all doing this together, saddle up!\u201d\u2014and we took that kind of fun and play as we\u2019re also using digital techniques. This is going to be distributed digitally.<\/p>\n You\u2019re going to be able to find this on all the major podcast platforms: Apple, Castbox, Overcast, Spotify, wherever you get your podcasts, you should be able to find it. And if not, please stalk our page on Instagram, The Great Pyramid Scheme<\/em>. You will find us, please.<\/p>\n Yeah, it\u2019s been very kind of a different experience to understand a digital audience goer. Because almost everybody listens to their podcasts in the car, doing chores, on a walk, while doing something. Whereas if you think about the history of radio, the radio was in the living room. You turned it on, you sat at the fireplace.<\/p>\n So there\u2019s something kind of fun about the motion and the enjoyment of different people are ready to approach something at a different time in their day. So I always think digital\u2019s an exciting space, and I\u2019ve really enjoyed it.<\/p>\n I came from a musical theatre background. As a kid, I did a ton of musical theatre. And I also have done a lot of classic Western classical music. That\u2019s what my focus was as an undergrad.<\/p>\n Whenever I left college, I actually was in Chicago at storefront theatres for a while, which was an awesome experience. If you are a theatre person, you should go to Chicago, live in Chicago, be in Chicago. What an amazing community. I cannot give the Chicago theatre community enough love or enough of a shout out of the quality of what\u2019s happening in Chicago. It\u2019s extraordinary. Had an extraordinary experience there.<\/p>\n So when I moved to LA, it was learning all over again. The rules for film and television are completely separate of what live performance rules are. My very, I know I\u2019m old, I\u2019m a Lebanese woman, so I guess my face is rather overactive. I\u2019m using my hands quite a bit right now. You won\u2019t be able to hear my hands, but I can hear my hands.<\/p>\n And the difference between that with finding kind of stillness and how that\u2019s going to work on screen, how are you repeating to have a close enough take for your editor but differentiating to have an interesting take for your editor, was a completely awesome skill set by filming that I really enjoyed.<\/p>\n And while there, doing improv I think is probably some of the most fun performance art there is, that it can be long form, short form. There\u2019s just no boundaries in comedy. There\u2019s no boundaries in standup. Because standup also is a very specific feedback loop that they will just kick you out, which is great. I fully believe in that kind of instant feedback loop in some ways, which is great.<\/p>\n So I think that some of my favorite performance art experiences have also been very much in community, very much in ensemble. Or like when I was in college, I went to Southern Illinois University. And we had a partnership with the Gaiety School of Acting in Ireland, mostly just because my concert choir director, Dr. Stevenson Davenport\u2014amazing, amazing person\u2014had a connection there. And we did what we called an original musical project because Patrick Sutton, the director of Gaiety School of Acting, just does not dig musical theatre in the American form. So he wanted to be very clear, \u201cThis is not a musical, it\u2019s a play with music.\u201d Which after you spend enough time with theatre people, that becomes very clear, is it a musical? Is it a play with music? What\u2019s the medium we\u2019re going with?<\/p>\n And we did a devised thing, where we did a lot of different exercises. And from that the story was lifted up, as Martin Maguire, our writer, kind of observed and put things together for us. It was very organic, it was very nice structured, devised work, which was really fun. And then we composed stuff.<\/p>\n There was one time where one of our comp students composed something and one of our trombonists composed something, and they were like, \u201cWe should layer this.\u201d And they layered it, and we kept that in the show.<\/p>\n There was one time when they were trying to ask us to do an exercise everybody can do. And I said, \u201cOkay, everybody lift up your shoe and tap it on the floor and then pass it on.\u201d And our writer was like, \u201cIt\u2019s a shoe factory. That\u2019s our location.\u201d And I mean, it was just a very exciting, very loose ends connotation, pulling things together.<\/p>\n So I think performance art can have two sides. It\u2019s just this kind of place to be open and exploring. Or it can be what The Great Pyramid Scheme<\/em> has done with our scripts and our specificity and our acting as close to a TV show as we can without major funding.<\/p>\n What we are telling in The Great Pyramid Scheme<\/em> are very specific stories with a very specific goal in mind. The pilot just introduces you to the world. But the next episode about propaganda, it\u2019s propagandists everywhere. And being able to kind of understand that and recognize that, I think, is really important.<\/p>\n But while also kind of silly. Isn\u2019t it ridiculous that we have crazy amounts of swag for just a local business? The pen, the squeeze stress ball. What other things did we throw in there, Nabra? Do you remember? We threw in so many crazy things.<\/p>\n Nabra: <\/strong>I think there were just things that were shaped like a pyramid. Like a pyramid but with the logo on it. Yeah.<\/p>\n Laila: <\/strong>Right. You could even see that on Foodstagram of burning a logo onto a crepe or something. So this kind of extreme capitalism, this extreme marketing, has been kind of a lot. Then with, is there a moral to the story with \u201cAliens\u201d? Or just maybe there\u2019s not. \u201cAliens\u201d might not have a moral.<\/p>\n Nabra: <\/strong>It\u2019s up to the audience to find the moral.<\/p>\n Laila: <\/strong>Yeah. And then with \u201cAtlantis,\u201d I feel like that was very much more like a marital story while also having a union rights Plot B. But it was just very marital in nature of that relationship. And the \u201cPeriod\/Duat\u201d episode, moral of the story is give women healthcare. This is really crazy, isn\u2019t it absolutely nuts?<\/p>\n The moral of the story is how is it that half the population, sometimes more in different places, has no access to feminine care products. And you just kind of expect society to keep turning without honoring this very normal biological thing. I find very surprising. And then we kind of wrap it up with the joy of \u201cPlagues.\u201d But I think Nabra wanted to speak on the period.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n\n
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