\n<\/p>\n
So I felt that that movement was a little bit repetitive in a way. And it\u2019s also very hard because these stones were a bit heavy. And they called my father, who he\u2019s not seventeen or eighteen years old, to come and pick it up and put it on the side. So it was such a heavy thing to do. So I wanted to embody that and do that as well. But I also picked a very large, large stone, just as art does, it enlarges stuff. And with the fragility that I am as a woman as well, I tried to push this stone in the road of Ramallah, one of the main streets of Ramallah as well, where people were passing, and I was just interrupting the crowds, the cars, kind of reminding them about that time. But also, it\u2019s not like they would remember.<\/p>\n
But also, I put myself into this outfit with one of the famous and the legendary photos of a woman whose name was Micheline Awwad, who\u2019s also from Beit Sahour, who her photo was she had a yellow scarf and yellow shoes, and she was wearing very nicely in black, a black dress. So in one hand she threw a stone, and in another hand she held her yellow shoes. So that was one of the times where she was coming out from the Sunday church, because after Sunday church, people would go out and they would start making a procession and call for free of Palestine. So that was one of the figures of the Palestinian, I would say, fighters who are struggling for freedom. So it was like all of us. It was me as a kid, six years old or seven years old. It was my father. It was people from all that town, all the towns in Palestine actually were really revolting at that time.<\/p>\n
So yeah, it has many layers, but at the same time, I felt like in 2014, to redo it and to redo this enactment in a way, and to interrupt the people and to tell them like, \u201cHello, what\u2019s happened to the revolution? Are we tired from it?\u201d It also reminds you of the curse of Sisyphus as well. Yeah, sorry if I\u2019m taking a lot of time, but it\u2019s such a layered piece because it\u2019s very symbolic. It\u2019s just an action that I\u2019ve done in this street, but it has so many layers. It comes from my childhood. It comes from the First Intifada. Until now it\u2019s a question for me is how long can we keep on pushing this stone or pushing this revolution and where it has lead us? It\u2019s kind of an infinite movement in a way.<\/p>\n
Marina: <\/strong>I love that so much. And I think just, first of all, it\u2019s important maybe to also add in if anyone who wants a little bit more Beit Sahour revolutionary information, <\/em>The Wanted 18<\/em> <\/a>is a great kind of animated movie that people can watch with some of the revolutionaries in Beit Sahour. But I love the idea that you dressed like this woman who would be known in Beit Sahour as a revolutionary, as a freedom fighter in different ways. And so then you came into the streets with this huge rock, which I love the layers of meaning because we sometimes hear of stone throwing. I don\u2019t think, it wasn\u2019t in my mind of the stones to create at least delays for the soldiers in their tank. I think it\u2019s a striking image, and then having people move them. And then of course Sisyphus. But I love the Palestinian layers, I think first. And so for the piece itself, you were in front of the restaurant Stones, is that true?<\/p>\n Riham: <\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n Marina: <\/strong>Okay. Amazing.<\/p>\n Nabra: <\/strong>More layers.<\/p>\n Riham: <\/strong>Exactly. A coffee shop with arguileh<\/em> and coffee and drinks, all of that.<\/p>\n Stones or air or anywhere we go, it just has deep stories that we still need to uncover.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n Marina: <\/strong>Yeah, but really bringing this into the city itself. And then the piece was you pushing the stone. Did people try to help you? Did anyone block your way? What was that experience like of doing the piece publicly?<\/p>\n Riham: <\/strong>Yeah, well, as doing it publicly, I did not really control how would people react to it, and I had no idea how they would react to it. But what happened is that it started to be a playful act. So people were coming and pushing with me the stones, sometimes pushing against me. It was like, \u201cHey, come on, guys. I cannot push all against you.\u201d I had three, four guys coming. It became something like that. I had also a parkour group who were doing a performance next to us, and then they came, and then they started also dancing on it, which I felt very symbolic as well, because parkour is such a revolutionary movement, I would say as well. So they started doing all of these jumps, and they just created some chaos in some moment.<\/p>\n I had people coming and recognizing the figure, recognizing my dress as well. It was like, \u201cAh, we remember this photo.\u201d So I did continue doing that for two, three hours. So it was like a durational piece. So I had different interactions. I had the police coming as well, asking me in the end it was like, \u201cWhat are you doing?\u201d I was like, \u201cI\u2019m just doing this part of an art piece.\u201d It was like, \u201cOkay, can you move it away?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cYeah, okay, I\u2019m going to move it.\u201d But it was already done, after three hours, I was already done with the piece. So yeah, it was different interactions. But people knew that it was already of a bigger… It was not like an unplanned day, it was a bigger procession with bigger activities that were happening that day with different pieces or performances in different places in that street. So yeah, but it was interesting. It was interesting interaction.<\/p>\n \u00a0<\/p>\n Marina: <\/strong>It sounds incredible. And I mean, just on a site-specific note, when I met you in person recently in Palestine, you were teaching a site-specific workshop class called Performance in Public Spaces. And so I would love to hear about that class if you feel like telling us anything about it. But also would love to then tie into your site-specific performance, The Coming Tide<\/em><\/a>, because the images from that are really striking. So maybe the class first and then the other piece.<\/p>\n Riham: <\/strong>Yeah, yeah. Well, part of my practice is working with places and spaces. So I really love working with any place and indulging in a deep kind of conversation between me and the space, whether it\u2019s a public space or it is any place. And I always choose: is it a place? Should we call it a space? Should we call it a public space? What is it? What term it connects with you when you want to create something in a specific space?<\/p>\n So I have created my own playful, I would say, scores or medians for twelve until fifteen sessions. So it\u2019s like a long workshop. It takes a time to process how we work. We meditate, sometimes we play, sometimes we research, sometimes we read stuff. So it\u2019s more of a lab, I would say, more than a workshop of really exploring what we can create and what kind of conversations that we can have.<\/p>\n When I say \u201cconversations,\u201d it\u2019s also what kind of things that you provoke the space or the space provoke you? What is underlying there? Is there a story that it wants to tell or there\u2019s a story you want to tell in it? Because it\u2019s such an open give and take. Because I think stones or air or anywhere we go, it just has deep stories that we still need to uncover as well, and to listen to and to listen to ourselves at that moment. So I really am excited about this kind of setup and workshops where I can work freely with spaces, yeah. And I think the artists who worked with me were very much interested about it as well. So usually it\u2019s a young artist or artists who come and take these workshops, but also it could be for anyone.<\/p>\n Marina: <\/strong>Sounds wonderful. And I mean, I just got to glimpse a little bit of what you were doing. The circus school had also posted some pictures of the process, and it seemed like such a deep and rich and really interesting way of looking at spaces, and also just the beautiful relationship that the group seemed to have with each other as well, which is just always lovely to see.<\/p>\n So for The Coming Tide<\/em>, what was the impetus behind that particular piece?<\/p>\n I just wanted to make the unlivable livable in a way, which is very symbolic even when we talk now about Palestine. It\u2019s like, I wish we can really put lives back again to the people who really died.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n Riham: <\/strong>Well, this piece, I have done it as part of a project at the university where I was studying my MA in 2013. So it was a very specific, site-specific project that we needed to do in a place or in a site. So it\u2019s not a whole piece that I have done by myself, but as five artists who decided to work on this site, which is the Deptford Creek. Deptford Creek is in London. Deptford is like a neighborhood in London, which is in the southeast of London. And at a specific time when the tide goes down I think, the River Thames just reveals this mud and it stays for a couple of hours and then it comes back. And it\u2019s really like it can cover you, it can cover you. Once it comes in, it can really cover you if you\u2019re standing.<\/p>\n And that place, people go there and lay down when the tide is down and it\u2019s like it\u2019s a beach for them. But at the same time it\u2019s covered, it\u2019s filthy and it\u2019s muddy, and people throw their garbage in there. Computers were found there, dead animals were found there. So it was a very contradicting place for us to work with. It\u2019s like you go there, you\u2019re mesmerized by the beauty of it, but at the same time, by the ugliness of what\u2019s in there as well. So that duality that we found it is a kind of a dead place, but it\u2019s not a dead place. It\u2019s kind of a beach, but it\u2019s not a beach. So it has this duality. But we decided that each one of us, we would do a ritual kind of ceremonies of embracing the two sides, the good and the bad, the beauty and the ugliness by welcoming the tide.<\/p>\n So we did our performance just like half an hour before the tide would come in or the water would come in. And each one of us did their own thing. I decided to… I think it came also naturally for me. I decided to have flowers with me, beautiful flowers, and to kind of be like, I don\u2019t know, a flower girl, whatever. But it sounds very cheesy. It was not like that because I was covered with mud. My dress was something that I pulled out from the mud itself in that creek. So it was really embracing that kind of messiness. And yeah, I put those flowers in the mud and then put them. So I don\u2019t know why it came to me, this action, but I did this very subtle action, but it just moved the audiences a lot. And then I also gave some of the flowers to the audiences.<\/p>\n So we invited the audience to come in, and they were also wearing boots that would cover until their knees up with their jackets. And it was such an amazing experience for them to come into the creek. People don\u2019t understand that it exists this kind of place in Deptford. And yeah, we did different things. We drummed, some people showered in the mud, da, da, da. But I chose this very subtle action. And I think if I want to reflect on it, I don\u2019t know, I just wanted to make the unlivable livable in a way, which is very symbolic even when we talk now about Palestine. It\u2019s like, I wish we can really put lives back again to the people who really died. So I think if I reflect on that, maybe it was my subconscious trying to do that.<\/p>\n Marina: <\/strong>Yeah, when you were describing the duality, I was like, \u201cOh, I mean, it\u2019s like…\u201d Because Palestine is so beautiful. I don\u2019t know that I\u2019ve seen a more beautiful place than Palestine, except for the ugliness of the occupation and the ongoing slow genocide in the West Bank and very quick and ongoing genocide in Gaza. But yeah, the duality is definitely, definitely there. Nabra and I, there\u2019s a transcript with the podcast, so we\u2019ll link your website with these images because I really do feel like they\u2019re so striking to see the mud and the flowers. And I can only imagine that\u2019s part of why it appealed to people. And also the fact that the space changes. You were in the space moments before something new was going to happen to it, which feels like, I don\u2019t know, on the precipice of excitement or of change. And that\u2019s so striking.<\/p>\n Going in a slightly different direction. Anytime I see a picture of someone with a clown nose on, I am excited and I need to know more because I love clowning in the physical theatre sense. And you have a piece called I Am You<\/em><\/a>,<\/em> and there\u2019s a clown version of you in this piece, I believe. And I think that your description talks about clown Riham and also the self, but also the multiple selves. Where did you do this piece? And can you just tell us about it in general? Would love to know more.<\/p>\n Riham: <\/strong>Yeah, yeah. This was after my study. This was after I came back from London. And the whole idea came from me because I took one clown workshop, one-day workshop where I really connected with my inner clown. And the thing about clowns is the whole idea for them is you laugh when you see yourself in them or in the clown. So usually if an angry clown comes to you it\u2019s because it reminds you of an angry time that you had at a moment in your life or a crisis in your life, so you laugh at it. So the more authentic and the more honest and the more deeper connection… This is one school of clowning, of course. I didn\u2019t get into the deep work of clowning because I didn\u2019t want to, because I wanted to stay with… I took the persona of the clown or the idea of the clown and the concept of the clown, of that concept of connecting with your true self.<\/p>\n Because my first encounter with my clown was such a sad clown. It was a clown that started crying. And when I started crying, people started laughing because my clown is just sad. And it was such an honest moment. And the more you cry, and I didn\u2019t play more with it, but the more I felt that I cried, I felt like the people were just laughing. And it was a very interesting moment. And then I started digging as like, \u201cWhy is my clown sad? Why am I sad? And what is it that you\u2019re feeling in this world?\u201d And I felt that the world is just becoming more and more stranger and becoming more and more fragmented, and you are becoming also fragmented. Someone who\u2019s living in Palestine, who\u2019s living also all over the world as well, want to tour with her work and trying to find herself who she is, her identity.<\/p>\n So it was such a deep questions, profound questions that I was asking myself in the world and how do I reflect to the world. So that\u2019s why I felt it was so, I didn\u2019t clown at all in this performance. So I Am You<\/em> was just a very, I would say, reflective piece. But also playful because the clown would be playful at a time. But it\u2019s more about everybody who\u2019s struggling in the world and trying to connect with themselves into this chaotic world that we live in. And yeah, it was just a door for me, that clown. So for example, I also, talking about public spaces, I did a short video that I put in the performance, so that\u2019s what I do sometimes, I make videos and I put it in my performance and people see it while I am there as well. So this is an element I like to work.<\/p>\n But because I had this idea of putting myself with this red nose and with this image of the clown and just standing there in different places, in Bethlehem, in Jerusalem, I did it in really different places, like in the market, in the church and in front of the wall, blah, blah, blah. Just me being there as an observer, as a clown, and how people would react to me. And it had different layers. Because people would expect a clown to come and jump and do stuff like crazy. But I was just standing there and seeing how people would react to me. And I think that\u2019s what created the laughter, because people would just double look at me like, \u201cWhat is she doing here?\u201d People would come and approach me. People would ignore me as if I\u2019m not there. Or maybe they would just sneak in and look at me. So that interactive as well, because it\u2019s expected for the clown to do something and expected for the clown to be happy and to make people laugh. But I tried to break this image of the clown as well in public spaces. And I created this amazing short video that I posted, and it\u2019s such an intimate moment for the audience to look at me looking at those moments in the streets.<\/p>\n Nabra: <\/strong>It\u2019s fascinating to hear how that piece kind of also blends your site-specific work, but also within a performance space. It\u2019s so fascinating how you\u2019ve connected those two things and brought this site specific into the theatre space as well. And another piece that\u2019s a solo show that integrates video is Another Love\u2019s Discourse<\/em> that you\u2019ve been touring. We\u2019re really hoping you\u2019ll come to the US so I can see it. Another Lover\u2019s Discourse<\/em>, sorry. And it\u2019s exciting to see you talking about politics, but also talking about love. It\u2019s really a show about love. So we\u2019d love to hear more about this piece, where it came from and how it connects to your greater work and what you\u2019re exploring.<\/p>\n Riham: <\/strong>Yeah, Another Lover\u2019s Discourse<\/em><\/a>, and in Arabic, lih khullitny \u2018uhibuk<\/em>, for the Arabic audiences that hears you, because that connects to the time where Egyptian films or the Egyptian cinema and the music, which I\u2019m very inspired by at the time of the sixties, the seventies and the fifties, where it\u2019s like the Hollywood black and white films, the romantic films that kind of gets into your head about what love is. So I think the whole idea started for me really long, long time ago. It\u2019s maybe in 2018 or 2019. I think I wanted to explore more what love is as a female woman who lived in Beit Sahour, in Palestine, coming from a Christian family who traveled in different places, who has been away and exploring life in different ways as well.<\/p>\n I came to a point where I was like, \u201cWhat is love?\u201d I was heartbroken in a way. So I was like, \u201cOkay, I need to understand the deeper layer of why is this and what ideas do I have about it? Why did I fail in love or in a relationship? Why did I reach to that point? Why am I putting a lot of guards now around me?\u201d So I think it\u2019s like, \u201cWhy not speak about love as well?\u201d It\u2019s like this is a subject that is really important for everyone, and it\u2019s the core I think of the human beings is to be in relationships. And I\u2019m talking about romantic relationships. I\u2019m talking about partnership. I\u2019m talking not about the idea of love, but it\u2019s the love between two people. So I started digging into my culture, into the cinema, the films, the songs. It was like, I never really understood. Nobody talks to you about love. It\u2019s taken for granted that this is what love is.<\/p>\n So I was like, \u201cWhat is the formula for love?\u201d I started talking to people, talking to my friends, talking to my students, talking to anyone I would find in a coffee shop. I would be sitting with my friends asking them, \u201cWhat do you think about love?\u201d And then a whole conversation starts. And I was recording all of this conversations. So it was an explorative kind of autobiographical work, I would say. So I was researching in a deep research about this, but at the same time recording myself and recording people and doing these different actions. And then I had this huge material.<\/p>\n So one of the actions that I did is I also took myself into the church with a wedding dress, not a whole wedding dress, like a piece of a wedding dress, and did some movements there, I would say ritualistic movements of me being in that church. And this woman is… You know, when you\u2019re expected to be in church, you\u2019re either married or you\u2019re in a funeral. So in my work, I always like to, I would say, challenge perceptions and challenge spaces and what puts you as a woman and as a female. Because that piece I would say is just about, why are you putting me just in a wedding dress? And you\u2019re expecting a lot from me with this wedding dress. You\u2019re expecting me to be married. But what about my ideas? What about relationships that I would like? What is it that I want?<\/p>\n So this is a piece that took me into a journey of someone who\u2019s trying to figure out what love is. And then I have this problem with not understanding, I\u2019m confused because I was heartbroken at some moment in my life in a relationship. And then it\u2019s like, Okay, I want to understand then what society is… Not society. I would say what is there, but it\u2019s like what also you want from a relationship. So I would say it\u2019s more, I don\u2019t know, a healing process that audiences goes with me into this piece where I\u2019m like, \u201cWhat do we want from love?\u201d Because it\u2019s also a multi-layered piece because it has videos and it has a lot of songs. Very hard to explain it without really coming and see it and watching the deep journey that you go into as an audience with me.<\/p>\n Marina: <\/strong>Yeah. Well, inshallah<\/em>, we will get to see it. That\u2019s definitely the goal. But in the meantime, I\u2019ve watched the trailer, which is four minutes long and very cool. And it has everything you just described. But one of the things that I most was excited by is an interview with your mom. And I mean, just on a healing note, it feels like conversations with moms are often healing. And I\u2019m curious if you can share some of the details there. But I also want to talk just what you have some great props there. So after the mom thing, I would love to move to some of the props and videos that you also have.<\/p>\n Riham: <\/strong>Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think this was a critical moment in the piece where I just interviewed my mom. And I also interviewed myself. I had someone interview me. So that was also interesting. And they see me. Because all the interviews that you watch during my performance is recordings, only voices, so you don\u2019t see them. But the only time that you see an interview is me. And this was a very honest interview. I just had someone there, was like, \u201cWhy are you doing this piece?\u201d And I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay. I tell you why.\u201d And I start talking about it, and I was still confused. So you can see the process that I am someone who\u2019s really processing this piece, and you can see that in the show itself.<\/p>\n So I think part of it was also coming to a point where I was in a restaurant with my mom and I talked to her innocently. It was like, \u201cIf I was six years old growing up, what piece of advice would you give me if I want to enter a relationship?\u201d Because I think I missed that growing up. I missed that. I was exploring different relationships, and I missed having… Because my parents were like, \u201cShe\u2019ll figure it out. She\u2019ll know how to do it. She\u2019ll know how to handle it.\u201d And I think a lot of people related to this interview, a lot of my German friends, Palestinian friends, French friends, they would tell me, \u201cYeah, we never had a conversation with our moms or fathers about that.\u201d Maybe some people have, but the most common thing is, \u201cYeah, we\u2019ll just not talk about it.\u201d And coming from my Arabic background, it\u2019s even more of a taboo. It\u2019s not a taboo, it\u2019s even like shyness or whatever. They just don\u2019t speak about it. It\u2019s like, \u201cYou know how to do it.\u201d But yeah, I think it\u2019s very important to talk about it and to give examples and empowering your choices in a relationship rather than just figuring it out by yourself. Because it can be toxic, especially in these days. It can be very toxic, and it can leave you with scars.<\/p>\n But talking about the props, because I\u2019m like, this is part of it is my healing process, but it\u2019s not just about that, but it\u2019s also about your societies, what kind of signals that it gives you. So I worked a lot with hearts, so from where that symbol came. So I started cutting with cardboard hearts. And as kids, we used to do these kind of shapes where you cut a piece that is round shaped and then it becomes a heart. So it\u2019s these kind of props that I used. And then from the films I used, from the Egyptian cinema I used this kind of hair, what is it baruks? barukat? What you put on as a hair, like a white hair, like wigs. Wigs, wigs.<\/p>\n And I started to become different women that were portrayed in the Egyptian cinema because they had a lot of dancers and music, so very sexy women. And at the same time, you had the very polite women who are there as like waiting on the telephone for somebody to come and call them. And her man is this Don Juan who is a player who she falls in love with and he changes for her. So all of this drama I tried to reenact as well. So I also brought this telephone and this props, the long cigarettes that they used to put, it was acting very feminine sometimes it\u2019s like, \u201cOkay, what is this that we are putting and we are acting to be in a relationship as a man or as a woman?\u201d So yeah, that was also part of props that I used.<\/p>\n And different things like the belly dancing. And I belly danced at some point as well, but in an empowering way where I felt like women as belly dancers I think it\u2019s was such a ritualistic at some time before the Egyptian… I wouldn\u2019t say that just the Egyptian, before it was translated, not just in the Egyptian cinema, but before that it just started to be more like a sexy dance. But before it was really embracing your femininity. It was a ritual that they did when women gave birth. And so it was also connected to that kind of femininity or that kind of powerful womb that you have as well as a woman and embracing that. So it\u2019s such a gender kind of piece, but coming from talking about love as a starting point.<\/p>\n Marina: <\/strong>Yeah, I mean find it just… We talked earlier about duality, and here I feel like there\u2019s the duality of the young and the older. The hearts that are attached on a string really made me feel like something that I would make, as you were talking, when I was a kid. But then you\u2019re coming to terms with all of these movie stars. Okay, I related to them before and I thought that\u2019s what love was. And now I\u2019m trying, \u201cOh, I can\u2019t really play that role as an adult. That role doesn\u2019t fit me now.\u201d And so just really getting to experience the imagination versus reality of everything. And I love that it\u2019s based on Egyptian cinema, which is not my reference-<\/p>\n Riham: <\/strong>Yeah, it\u2019s not expected.<\/p>\n Marina: <\/strong>Yeah, but it\u2019s many people\u2019s reference for love and for romance and for what a beautiful woman and a beautiful romantic relationship looks like. So, I really feel like this piece touches so many aspects of life.<\/p>\n Riham: <\/strong>Yeah, I want to add also that it also speaks to males. Because a lot of the interviews I also interviewed my friends, like my male friends and my brother, who was also going to get married. And it\u2019s like also, \u201cHow do you associate with this?\u201d And it also is talking about I mean, \u201cI\u2019m not a knight who\u2019s coming to save this woman.\u201d So it also speaks to a lot of genders and to a lot also of sexualities. But I\u2019m talking about my story, about my personal story. And the more personal you get, the more you speak to different, I would say, genders or gender or people or whoever associates with it. But I say state it in one direction in a way about me, focused me, but spoke to a lot of people.<\/p>\n I don\u2019t see any kind of performance that I want or we need to indulge now that is not for liberation or for freedom of Palestine.<\/strong><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n Nabra: <\/strong>And so we\u2019ve talked about a lot of your solo pieces. And the last major piece we wanted to talk about is it seems like a very different project, The Alternativity,<\/em><\/a> which is such a brilliant title as well, because it really describes what it is. This nativity play that you staged in Bethlehem, which was a collaboration with you, Danny Boyle, who directed films like Slumdog Millionaire,<\/em> and Banksy, who has a lot of art in Palestine as well. Can you give us a brief overview of the project, how you came to be a part of this project? And also, I\u2019m putting it out there for listeners that it is available on YouTube, so we\u2019ll link it.<\/a> Or a documentary about the piece is available, which was so exciting to see and so interesting and also has a lot of joy within all of the political commentary that\u2019s in there because so many youth involved, and it happens during Christmas time and has a lot of the nativity elements, but I love the spins you put on it. So can you tell us just what that piece was, where that came from, and how you got involved with it?<\/p>\n Riham: <\/strong>Yeah, so this space came from a documentary film that they wanted to do, The Alternativity<\/em>. But they wanted to do the nativity story in an alternative way. They, Banksy and his team, and the team of the Waldorf Hotel, I don\u2019t know if you know about the Waldorf Hotel, that is the hotel that is in front of the wall in Bethlehem, which is really next to the checkpoint that leads to Jerusalem next to Aida camp, one of the refugee camps in Bethlehem. It\u2019s really also next to another refugee camp. So it\u2019s not away from what\u2019s happening. And a lot of question marks were around that hotel is like, \u201cShould it be there? Should it not be there?\u201d It has the worst view, which is the wall. And all of this wall, it\u2019s like a cement wall, which is like eight meters high, has not just Banksy\u2019s paintings or drawings, but a lot of artists come and paint on it as well.<\/p>\n And Banksy wanted to do a documentary film about making a nativity story in front of the wall and inviting audiences to come and watch it in front of the wall at their park of their hotel, which was a little bit strange. Because it\u2019s like, how can we get those audiences away from the Nativity Square where they usually go for the church and for the bride ceremonies there and all of that? And they wanted to do it there in such a highly political place. But at the same time, I think me being involved in it, he wanted to have Danny Boyle as a director, but also Danny Boyle wanted to work with me as a director because… Yeah, it\u2019s just more visible to work with the Palestinian director.<\/p>\n And me and Danny Boyle were just talking about how we should just keep it very simple and very playful at the same time. It\u2019s just not to put a lot of highly political messages in the mouth of the kids, not to let them be these agents, but let the space, coming back to the space, that the place where we are at speaks by itself because we were already in that context. We were already in front of the wall and we are making the nativity story in front of it. So it already speaks about the circumstances.<\/p>\n So then The Alternativity<\/em> is like if we imagine the nativity story of these days, of nowadays, how would it be? So who would the characters be? So for example, we had Virgin Mary of course crossing the checkpoint, and we built the checkpoint and she came with her donkey, with her huge belly, with Jesus inside her of course, and Joseph with her as well. Doesn\u2019t have permission to pass the checkpoint and all of these. And he gets inspected. So that\u2019s a way being playful, but at the same time having these subtle political messages. And I think also another part where in different points of the play, we really followed the narration of the nativity story, but it was these kind of moments where I played with it.<\/p>\n For example, I had had a rap group, a woman rap group, Shoruq, they\u2019re called Shoruq Rap Group or Dance Group, who are based in Dheisheh camp, another camp in Bethlehem, playing the roles of the wise men and rather having the wise men, I had wise women because I felt that these days if we would have wise groups, it would be these wise women groups who are rapping for freedom, who are looking very cool with their attitude and singing, rapping for freedom. It was such a moment at that moment in the play. And what else? I had this different actions. And for example, the narrators were from Hebron, were Muslims, both of them, and one of them was Hijabi. So it\u2019s also showing for the BBC, for the audiences outside, it\u2019s like actually Muslims also celebrate the nativity, the story, celebrate Christmas with people in Bethlehem as well. So it\u2019s really integrated. It\u2019s not like it was shown outside this whole Islamophobia that is becoming these days. So I had these little interruptions, I would say, in the performance, yeah.<\/p>\n Nabra: <\/strong>It\u2019s a really lovely piece, and really recommend people to look into it. And I was also just wondering really quickly if you could talk about who the audience was, how they got there, and who was target audience, I guess, if you might say, for this performance?<\/p>\n Riham: <\/strong>Yeah, people flew for Banksy, of course. We have to say that. They would come only for Banksy. But also a lot of the community was there because I have involved twelve \u00a0actors, young actors in the play. And I\u2019m not talking about actors, I\u2019m talking about amateurs who I worked with for a month and a half, but I really felt their talent. So I think if each one of them would bring their family, so their family all came to see them and to celebrate the show with them. I had a choir group sxity, Amwaj choir group, sixty members from Hebron and from Bethlehem, so also their families. So I think it felt more like a family show. My family, Christmas, friends heard about it. I included the people from Shoruq group also, they would invite the people from Dheisheh camp as well. So I felt like because I have included those groups in the play, so they\u2019ve brought their audiences with them. Apart from just being the foreigners, it was also filled with the community of Bethlehem, which I was happy about, yeah.<\/p>\n Nabra: <\/strong>That\u2019s how it felt watching it. I was like, \u201cI feel like this is all the families and the parents.\u201d And it really felt like, I don\u2019t know, a nativity play in the community, even though there was also this higher profile element to it as the documentary. So yeah, very joyful and lovely, and a lot of really interesting political elements as well. And we wanted to ask just briefly, because we\u2019re near the end of our time together, what is next for you? I know that you\u2019re going back to the UK to get your PhD. So I\u2019d love to hear you talk about what your thesis is going to be and if there\u2019s any big projects in the works right now that we can look forward to.<\/p>\n Riham: <\/strong>Yeah, I\u2019m going to Exeter in two weeks to start my PhD, performance practice studies. I think now reflecting on what\u2019s happening in Palestine, for a long time, I would say very briefly, for a long time, you\u2019ve seen my work is political, but also very personal. And I talk about different themes in my work, and I was so much involved in gender work as well and love and all of this, but I was a little bit, \u201cWhat\u2019s next for me?\u201d And since the war started, I was just like, \u201cWhat can I do as a performance artist now?\u201d I felt trapped. I felt I was unable to express what kind of… The question is what kind of art that comes out in war has been a debate for me and for the people here.<\/p>\n So I started with this question as I connect with the land and the land of Palestine, it has struggled for more than seventy-five, seventy-six years, and it\u2019s still struggling. And each time is just harsher and harsher. And now we are just witnessing, I think, a moment in history that we will never forget. I wish I did not witness this kind of thing. So it\u2019s like I started with a theme of the land and how we are witnessing land in times of crisis and how we are witnessing a genocide and how it is portrayed and how it is talked about and how all these mediums, but what does the land want to say in a way, if I want to connect to it, since I work a lot with spaces. So I connected now more with the land and with the land of Palestine, because there\u2019s a lot of art about the land of Palestine. So I started with a big question is how we perform land in times of crisis basically. And so I will dig deeper into it, but it\u2019s more about connecting performance to activism as well, because I don\u2019t see any kind of performance that I want or we need to indulge now that is not for liberation or for freedom of Palestine.<\/p>\n So it\u2019s becoming more obvious to me, the goal: where\u2019s the destination? At the time in the past where art were just for liberation, especially in Palestine. I\u2019m talking about Palestinian artists who lived in the war of the seventies, the \u2018sixties, and the eighties who just did art for liberation. And I think we need to come back to that time and indulge as artists as well with this movement that is happening. With all its sadness, with all its horror and with words that I cannot describe yet, and all the sadness that I feel, all the mourning that we feel as Palestinians, I felt that this is the right time for me to start my research. And it\u2019s going to be not a research as a doctor research, but more really questioning how can I perform land now? How can I make any performance now in these times of crisis that has an impact? So, yeah.<\/p>\n Nabra: <\/strong>Yeah. And that\u2019s a question that\u2019s been on the top of our minds as artists and so, so many of the people, I would say, all the people that we interview and have been talking to now. So we really appreciate that research and I know it\u2019ll benefit all of us moving forward to question that as we continue, all of us, to question that. So thank you. And thank you for joining us today and for talking about all of your myriad performances, and we\u2019re looking forward to what comes next and what you find out as well as you\u2019re researching and questioning.<\/p>\n Marina: <\/strong>This podcast is produced as a contribution to HowlRound Theatre Commons. You can find more episodes of Kunafa and Shay<\/em> and other HowlRound podcasts by searching HowlRound wherever you find podcasts. If you loved this podcast, please post a rating and write a review on your platform of choice. This helps other people find us. You can also find a transcript for this episode along with a lot of other progressive and disruptive content on the howlround.com website. Have an idea for an exciting podcast essay or TV event the theatre community needs to hear? Visit howlround.com and contribute your ideas to the Commons. Yalla<\/em>, bye.<\/p>\n Nabra: <\/strong>Yalla<\/em>, bye.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n\n
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