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<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\nIn movies, sociopaths are often depicted as cold-blooded killers, but the disorder is actually widely misunderstood. Patric Gagne is a therapist, wife and mother of two living in the Los Angeles area, and she just wrote a gripping memoir<\/a> about how it actually<\/em> feels to be a sociopath. I interviewed Patric on the phone about misconceptions, her childhood, and her urge to break rules\u2026<\/p>\n First off, what do you wish society knew about sociopathy?<\/strong> People often picture sociopaths as Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer, not average people.<\/strong> There\u2019s so much mental health awareness these days around autism, depression, anxiety, the list goes on. So, I was shocked by the negative comments on your New York Times piece<\/a>. People were really upset that they featured an interview with a sociopath.<\/strong> Little kids can seem like sociopaths. Toby once bit a kid at the playground, and Anton would push over his friend\u2019s block towers. What\u2019s the difference between typical kid behavior and sociopathic behavior?<\/strong> As a kid, did you know you were different?<\/strong> If you suspect your child might have an \u2018emotional learning disability,\u2019 how would you approach that?<\/strong> There was a scene in the book where your mom was crying to your dad, saying, what can we do with her? What has your mom said about raising you, looking back?<\/strong> You talk in the book about how, since you didn\u2019t feel strong emotions, you would instead feel apathy. Then stress would build up, and you\u2019d do risky behavior just to feel something, anything. Can you tell us about that?<\/strong> What about hurting people?<\/strong> A compulsion? That sounds similar to OCD or addiction.<\/strong> What were the OCD tips?<\/strong> What are your urges like as an adult?<\/strong> What are your guidelines for living a moral life, since you can\u2019t really trust your gut? Do you lean on social norms and laws?<\/strong> You wrote that your husband sometimes gets upset that you can\u2019t love him in this all-encompassing way. You love him, of course, but you feel emotions differently.<\/strong> What does he think of your memoir?<\/strong> What do you hope people take away from the book?<\/strong> Thank you so much, Patric. Your book<\/a> is a gift.<\/strong><\/p>\n P.S. What it feels like to have autism<\/a>, and being diagnosed with ADHD as an adult<\/a>.<\/p>\n (Top photo by Stephen Holvik<\/a>.)<\/p>\n![\"Patric](\"https:\/\/cupofjo.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/04\/Author-photo-2_Patric-Gagne_credit-Stephen-Holvik-1-scaled.jpg\")
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Sociopathy doesn\u2019t mean what a lot of people think it means. Sociopaths can feel the primary emotions, like happiness, sadness and anger. But sociopaths have a harder time feeling the social<\/em> emotions [emotions that depend upon the feelings or actions of other people, such as embarrassment, guilt, shame and empathy]. Sociopaths can learn social emotions, they just learn them differently<\/em>. I call sociopathy an \u2018emotional learning disability,\u2019 since that\u2019s what it feels like.<\/p>\n
Not every sociopath is a serial killer who\u2019s out to get you. These extreme examples comprise only a small fraction. But they\u2019ve been misappropriated to define everyone with the disorder. It\u2019s wild to me that this perception has been allowed. It\u2019s the only personality disorder where we are villainized full stop, even though that\u2019s not what the research says.<\/p>\n
I represent a very inconvenient truth because many people want to think all sociopaths look like monsters, since monsters are easy to spot. It\u2019s unsettling that you could be living next door to a sociopath and have no idea, or with<\/em> one and have no idea. People don\u2019t like that. Statistics say that the prevalence is just under 5% of the population. <\/p>\n
Socio-emotions are learned emotions. Babies don\u2019t automatically feel remorse from the womb. When a kid knocks down block towers, you say, \u2018Hey, that might make someone sad.\u2019 A neurotypical child will get that and start feeling shame or guilt. A neurodivergent kid may still feel ambivalent. My mom would say, \u2018Well, you don\u2019t want people to feel sad, do you?\u2019 And I was like, well, what does it matter? I couldn\u2019t conceptualize those traditional socialization lessons until I was much older.<\/p>\n
Yes. I learned very quickly that it wasn\u2019t okay to say, I don\u2019t feel bad about that. And I learned that it wasn\u2019t okay to say, I\u2019m not excited that so-and-so is coming to visit. If someone asks if you\u2019re excited, you nod and say yes<\/em>. I realized that in kindergarten.<\/p>\n
Preemptively sit a child down and say, \u2018Personally, I feel excitement or shame in this or that situation, but there are a lot of people who don\u2019t feel anything when X, Y and Z. And it\u2019s okay that you don\u2019t have those feelings.\u2019 When you\u2019re socializing kids, talk about behaviors, all day long, but not<\/em> emotions. There is nothing inherently immoral about having limited access to emotion.<\/p>\n
When I was growing up, psychology wasn\u2019t as much of a thing, and my mom did the best she could. Her reaction to the book is what I\u2019d hoped for: understanding that there was a reason that I behaved the way I did that had nothing to do with her. This is a personality disorder, not anything a parent did right or wrong \u2013 the lack of a traditional emotional response is not<\/em> personal. <\/p>\n
Yes, as a kid, I would sneak into our neighbors\u2019 house when they weren\u2019t home and just hang out, or sneak out of my house at night and follow people around the neighborhood. In college, I stole cars at night, drove them for hours, and then returned them without people ever knowing.<\/p>\n
I wrote down the rule that I couldn\u2019t hurt anyone. Then I thought, so, what can<\/em> I do? Sneaking into a neighbor\u2019s house, it\u2019s like, look, there\u2019s no one in this house, who cares if I\u2019m here? But because I knew I wasn\u2019t \u2018supposed\u2019 to do it, it felt good. It gave me a release. It can\u2019t explain it more than that. If you\u2019re a kid, and you throw a bottle, it feels good \u2013 this is similar. I didn\u2019t really want to be doing that stuff, but I felt a compulsion.<\/p>\n
I read a magazine article about OCD, and it felt similar \u2014 that compulsion to do things that you don\u2019t want to do but that you know will make you feel less stressed. I remember thinking, oh, so instead of repetitive behaviors or counting or washing hands, I feel compelled to do destructive things. That understanding helped me recognize that maybe if I follow the tips that they give for OCD, maybe my stuck stress will go away, too.<\/p>\n
They recommended writing down your behaviors and teasing out why they made you feel better. It\u2019s all about redirecting it so it doesn\u2019t control your life. I remember, as a child, picturing people in prison and thinking, wouldn\u2019t that be nice? I\u2019d think about being in lockdown with the lights off and how even if they wanted to do something, even if their compulsive drive was at the absolute highest, they couldn\u2019t do something destructive because they were inside the walls. Wouldn\u2019t that be nice not to be lying in my own bed feeling powerless against that urge?<\/p>\n
My traditional lifestyle has been such a service to me because I respond to the structure and the idea that I have a family. I could go out and steal a car tomorrow and I might get arrested, or I could choose to do some cognitive journaling. So many people on the sociopathic spectrum have the ability to lead high-functioning, beautiful lives.<\/p>\n
As a sociopath, you can still have a moral compass. I don\u2019t feel shame and guilt, but my working brain can still tell me what is right and wrong. A sociopath makes decisions based on logic. I appreciate the benefits that come with living within a harmonious community. I don\u2019t have to CARE in order to make the right choice. That\u2019s something people get wrong about sociopathy \u2013 \u2018I have to care about you to do the right thing by you\u2019 is just as inaccurate as \u2018you have to believe in God in order to make the right choices in life.\u2019 You make the right choices in life because they benefit you and the people you love.<\/p>\n
My husband is Italian, he\u2019s as hot-blooded and passionate as it gets. You don\u2019t have to be a sociopath to not meet those qualifications! That said, love is a learned emotion. Just because feelings like love and remorse don\u2019t come naturally to sociopaths doesn\u2019t mean they don\u2019t come, period.<\/p>\n
I would write chapters and my husband would read them first, and there were more than a dozen times where he came in and said, you can\u2019t write this, you have to burn this. He was aghast that I would even consider telling these stories, but playing such an intricate part in the writing process also allowed him to understand what I was saying. I\u2019ve been with him since I was a kid, and when he read it in black and white, he finally understood me.<\/p>\n
Most of all, I wrote it in the hopes of reaching sociopathic people to feel less alone. But also I wrote it so neurotypical people could read it and go, ahhh!<\/p>\n![\"sociopath](\"https:\/\/cupofjo.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/04\/sociopath-memoir-patric-gagne.jpg\")
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